Elektron-Users

It seems that manufactuers still feel there is worth in putting out hardware synths... it seems in the last few years the market has blown up... where people do not want to use softsynths. How comes there is so few choices when it comes to new drum machines? and don't give me the standard no need due to the MD response.

I'll offer up some thoughts (which may be contradictory) since this issue is something I have pondered after switching from battery to the MD and MPC for most of my beat work.

First, hardware synths take up space. Most people who are going to invest in hardware usually do it in the form of a synth -- maybe because synths can "do" more (as in make different sounds) or maybe because the idea of using a drum machine is antiquated in the face of software drum synths and samplers. The latter offer more control and detail over parameters and of course a larger screen to edit on. Which could lead to a debate about hardware vs. vstis, but I think that's another, albeit related, thread.

More importantly, however, I think most people think of drum machines in terms of, and most drum machines are designed in, the typical xoxo style (unless you're talking about a drum sound module, like a ROMpler, which would be controlled via a MIDI sequencer). As a result, it's very difficult, if not impossible to program really fine "drum lines" (which I put in quotations because triggering drums at 1/128 resolution usually leads to buzzing! ). Maybe I'm ignorant, but I can't think of a drum machine with x0x0 style programming that make such detail possible without messing with the tempo or time signature (which often is a global parameter. . . ?). Of course, you could always control the drum machine from a MIDI sequencer, but sometimes, as in the case of the MD, going this route would not permit you to take advantage of things like parameters locks.

So, perhaps its the way that drum machines are designed, and why the MD is such a special drum machine, because it allows they type of control over parameters that many people have been looking for in a hardware drum machine.

That said, the MD is still not 100% capable of the same things as a MIDI sequencer/software drum machine combo. For example, the only way I've been able to recreate the buzzes that I loved to make with Battery and a MIDI sequencer is by using the retrig parameters on the sampled sounds in the MD. Otherwise, in triggering the synthesized drums, short of using an external MIDI sequencer, I can't think of how to get the same buzzes or fine resolutions on just the MD. The resolution is just not fine enough -- but please, prove me wrong if it IS possible: retriggering an EFM drum sound at high resolution while taking advantage of parameter locks sounds lovely.

Anyway, just some thoughts for a sat. morning.

-M

synthesizers are drum machines :-D

jsrockit wrote:
How comes there is so few choices when it comes to new drum machines? and don't give me the standard no need due to the MD response.

just outta curiosity, what is it you're specifically looking for? i don't think the drum machine market is that barren in general. i doesn't sound like to me you're looking for just any drum machine.

a

Also, the low end drum market has been pretty busy in the last few years with the Electribes.

"synthesizers are drum machines"

too true. make your own drums, sample, and load into whatever machine you want to sequence with.

After all if you're talking digital drums all it is is a sample anyway. If you're talking analogue drums it's nothing you can't program on your normal analogue synth.

actuel wrote:

jsrockit wrote:
How comes there is so few choices when it comes to new drum machines? and don't give me the standard no need due to the MD response.

just outta curiosity, what is it you're specifically looking for? i don't think the drum machine market is that barren in general. i doesn't sound like to me you're looking for just any drum machine.

a

I'm ok right now. I have a MD and an MPC1000. However, there are alot of good synths coming out...and things seem to be on the up and up for synths (DSI MEK, etc)...but drum machines are kind of stagnant. The MD was a major step...but I thought others would follow. That is all I meant. People will buy 20 synths... and not care about having only one drum machine. I am more of a buy one or two synths...buy 5 or 6 drum machines type of guy. The analog and vitual analog drum machines on the market I find hard to make a good snare on since they are made more for "dance" music...instead of hip-hop. The other drum machines (boss, alesis, etc) sound too corny to me. People have rbought up that the MD with UW is the way to gosince you can put in your own snare samples. The MPC is my style as well...since I can put anything I want in it. I guess people are satisfied with the software realm for drums. I like battery. However, I find it hard to get a booming beat as easy as you can on an MPC or MD.

glaive wrote:
Also, the low end drum market has been pretty busy in the last few years with the Electribes.

True...but I had the ER-1 years ago and hated due to the fact that I could not get a good snare or rim sound. Ever since then, I just assumed they sucked...is this not true?

Forgot to login for the last two posts.

the electribes are very good for the price. my only gripe about them is that i thought they were toys back in 2001 and opted for software. i recently bought an electribe er-1 and my buddy bought a ea-1 and let me tell you, i think the only thing that could top that pair is a MD & MM. the sounds are somewhat generic but really it depends on how hard you push the machine. i was able to persuade some awesome sounds from the er-1 just minutes after playing with it. its an instant machine.

*however*

i sold it with a bunch of other gear to get a machinedrum. the er-1 was great for instant sounds... a wonderful live instrument however it had a lot of idiosyncracies i didn't care for. the er-1 is limited and thats the great thing about it. for $150 used you got a drum machine that fills the gap AND sounds great... but you dont 'explore' a machine like a er-1.. you just get really good at rockin it. to me the machinedrum is the end all of drum machines. it does far more than you will ever need it to do so you can explore the machine for a really long time and constantly push things out of it. in an age where a lot of electronic musicians value how efficient a tool 'gets the job done' i found the machinedrum to be a perfect balance between possibility & usability. not only can you get endless sounds from it, its a blast to program.


ultimately though i have to admit, if i had the bank account i'd have every synth & drum machine under the sun. they just look so sweet when they're doing their thing and the lights are off. so yeah in other words i need a full fledged machinedrum sampler something like a mpc/esx1 combo with the work ethic of a machinedrum.

oh and back to the original post, i think there aren't a lot of new drum machines because the concept of a 'drum machine' is obsolete to a lot of people. simply put... you're going to have to be a unique company willing to cut gains to produce an inspirational product. bigger companies see $$ to be made elsewhere, like synthesizers with computer integration etc. dont you think access could of made a drum machine that mated with the virus series flawlessly? they COULD, but never will because its not as profitable as making a synth that does everything. and these days it seems thats whats in demand.. the all in one synthesizer.

personally, i've been both routes now, software first, then hardware, then software, now im back to hardware. blinking lights/twiddly knobs are COOL. bring a girl to your house and show her your synth collection and she thinks its COOL. bring a guy to your house and show off your collection and they think its COOL. everyone agrees that multiple synthesizers are COOL. show off a laptop with max/msp? neat. mouse clicks and menus and clever guis are just disguises for tools that get the job done. i strongly believe that software has twisted the 'fun' out of producing electronic by turning your average bedroom beat freak into a 'producer' who needs to have tracks that please everyone instead of the weird quirky guy with a shitload of synthesizers and cool songs i can rock hardware with absolutely no intent of creating a song and be completely satisfied at the end of the session. i have absolutely no point in all this text so i'll just end it with 'yes i would like more drum machines too even though the machinedrum does everything i could ever want.. if i could afford it i'd get the other drum machines too.. so it is indeed a shame there aren't more around!

drum machines are COOL.

im definently still drunk from last night, disregard this post.