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TOPIC: Re:composition, process, ideas
#47671
Admin
Posts: 2387
composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
This is a response of sorts to "what's your favorite forum?" thread. so...

here are some of my thoughts/processes to start with:

while any standard or non-standard approach to composition may yield results, on any given day nothing may work and you may just have to accept that improvising or crapping out whatever you can and recording it for later review is the best option. on that note, working every single day and keeping that continuity going for long periods of time is absolutely the most important thing. Working everyday for one year, even if it's only for thirty minutes each day will completely change you as an artist. it's impossible not to improve (or realize that you should quit) if you work every single day.

One very obvious thing: engage in self-study on the subject of composition/form/process. This can be anything from studying Arnold Schoenberg's Style and Idea to analyzing an extremely basic form and writing a new melody to it... or literally counting the number of measures in your favorite techno track and mapping it out on paper section by section with extensive notes and then modeling a track of your own on that exact form. or writing down marley, bob dylan, bjork, rumi, e.e. cummings, the roots... and looking for ideas, concepts, and phrases that move you and set them to your own music.

Most Important:steal ideas from the masters! any genre or style, time period, melodic, rhythmic or harmonic structure is fair game. in fact it's necessary and inevitable unless you are going to invent a new language of music in your bedroom studio.

My process:

>>if I'm already inspired i get straight to work usually improvising a bit and recording the output then listening back for anything in the chaos that resembles a 1) melody 2) harmonic structure 3) rhythmic form 4) something worth developing. then i pickem out and start the same process over repeatedly until i have some well developed improvisation which can be used to organize a form.

>>if i want to "write something" i play at the keyboard or my saxophone or my MD UW and have a few inspiring albums ready to go on the ipod. usually albums that are totally unrelated to whatever type of music i'm working on. if it's machinedrum that day then i'll cue up some west african, samba, salsa or some other very rhythmic and melodic stuff. i listen then emulate. sometimes i don't listen to anything but the inner ear and try to stretch it to hear something original. sometimes.

>>i write down musical phrases that i like in a notebook. my own music, or not my own. if manuscript is not your thing then keep a musical phrase sample/midi file folder. these are always there when inspiration isn't.

>>i write without acknowledging inner commentary. First ideas always make it onto paper in their entirety. in fact i use a writing pencil without an eraser. i never erase. the inner critic does not have your success in mind. the inner editor does. later though.

'write' is interchangeable with sequence or program a track.

>>once i've got something , anything, i get a form together before i degenerate and begin making squeaky shit on some preset.

>>i take a few simple ideas and develop them rather than trying to sift through a lot of complex/dense ideas.

>>i strive to balance preparation, organization and theory with improvisation.

all this stuff is just general without referencing any gear (almost) or hardware vs. software issues because form (structure) and content and delivery are for my purposes completely unrelated. concepts in musical form and composition apply equally to sonata, rag, techno, jazz standard, george crumb, improvised music, gamelan, electronic, symphonic... whatever.

long first post on this. hopefully someone made it the end and finds it useful/stimulating.

Anyone else want to share some processes?
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#47676
Admin
Posts: 2839
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Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
incredible post Kirlian. very thorough. it's nice to see someone learning to work around the almost near, first nature short-comings that come to 'bedroom' producers. great insights. i need to be more awake before i can contribute anything personally.
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#47678
Boo
Posts: 162
0
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
That's what I'm talking about!

I like your ideas. I'll share some ideas I've used in composing songs. I used to just tweak and mess around with equipment but now I feel the desire to create something someone can relate to.

My song "Jin Tian Waltz"

Well since living in Taiwan, I've been studying some Mandarin Chinese. So studying Chinese culture in general has been influencing me as of late. I hate to sound like a new age religious person because I am far from it but the ideas of Daoism have influenced my music.

The opposites pulling each other. How you beg for structure but at the same time music can breed some chaos. It's the balance of these things that inspires me right now.

I took the Waltz beat 1,2,3 and had a guitar part that I wrote 5 years ago. I finally used this in the waltz structure. I then found all the waltzes that I had in my music collection and listened to them constantly. I found some really nice trumpet sounds that I tried to recreate with guitar in my own way. You have to borrow from the past, it's the basis of all art. Like was earlier stated, you can try to create a new genre or whatever but no matter how original you think you are, you are taking from what's already been done.

I felt inspired by a conversation I had overlooking Taipei one night. We looked at the lights, the cars, the pollution, the incessant city noises and thought about what people do with their time. I just couldn't get over this and I had to go home the next day to make my song. So these are just some ways that I go about my day.

This is just one song though. It changes everytime I make a song. I usually just know when my personal inspirations will be able to be applied to music. If I don't have any personal inspirations I have trouble making music that I enjoy and therefore no one else will give the time to listen to. And why would you?

Has anyone read "This is Your Brain on Music"? I love that book. I suggest you read it if you like music.

John
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#47694
Admin
Posts: 2387
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
jin tian waltz has a very inspiring vibe. liked it lots!

i can totally relate to your inspiration sources. i've found that traveling and living in a foreign country provides a constant flow of ideas.

however unresolved and incomplete the expression will often ultimately be, i think it's important to pay attention to how your beliefs, experiences and environment influence your music and try to work with that conceptually. it'll be there even if you don't pay attention to it, but i've found for myself that projects or tracks driven by a concept i hold in my mind seem to materialize faster and ultimately have more meaning for me.

on that note, i think i'm inspired!

time for a little kaffee and some studio
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#47695
Admin
Posts: 2387
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
actuel wrote:
incredible post Kirlian. very thorough. it's nice to see someone learning to work around the almost near, first nature short-comings that come to 'bedroom' producers. great insights. i need to be more awake before i can contribute anything personally.

i look forward to hearing from you on this actuel! after listening to your music, i believe you probably have lots of insight into process and composition.
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#47703
Boo
Posts: 162
0
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
Kirlian, I just checked out your website and after reading some of your posts I have to say I like what you have to say. I think we're on the same page as far as music goes.

You are absolutely right, your surroundings will affect your music even if you're not consciously thinking about it. So why not try to be aware as much of it as you can? It totally helps. My machinedrum is a conduit of my creativity and it will only be as much as I want to make of it. It's way too easy to make absolute madness on the thing, I find it's more challenging to make it sound coherent, taming the elektron. Well thanks for the input. Your initial post is very inspiring, much more than any gear thread ever will be even though that's not the point behind these particular threads. Good work on articulating your creative process. I give you props.
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#47710
Admin
Posts: 2932
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
kirlian wrote:
...working every single day and keeping that continuity going for long periods of time is absolutely the most important thing. Working everyday for one year, even if it's only for thirty minutes each day will completely change you as an artist. it's impossible not to improve (or realize that you should quit) if you work every single day.

i absolutely agree with this, and for me it's one of the most frustrating parts about writing music (although i use the time writing with respect to myself *very* loosely). Not even counting work, there's family, friends, and other hobbies that steal time.

... or literally counting the number of measures in your favorite techno track and mapping it out on paper section by section with extensive notes and then modeling a track of your own on that exact form. or writing down marley, bob dylan, bjork, rumi, e.e. cummings, the roots... and looking for ideas, concepts, and phrases that move you and set them to your own music.

you should have a chat with wesen about these ideas. he's the only person i've ever "met" to approach music with such a rigorous take it apart and see how it works approach -- which he has with some of Hawtin's closer to the edit works.

>>i write down musical phrases that i like in a notebook. my own music, or not my own. if manuscript is not your thing then keep a musical phrase sample/midi file folder. these are always there when inspiration isn't.

I find that this is a great idea, and I do it, but in practice i rarely go back to my "noodles" or jams. It's nice to have the source material though. I've recently cribbed from something I've had lying around since 2000.

>>i strive to balance preparation, organization and theory with improvisation.

starting to learn guitar has shown me how useful the theory is. I played something in dmnor. had to look up in a keyboard chord book (thank god I have one) to make the key/nonguitar part.

somewhere I heard someone, i think an e-music artist, suggest that a little knowledge was dangerous -- that it was enough to trap you inside of a box, but without the benefit of knowing the box so well that you could step outside of it. I think that's true for some things, but with respect to notes and pitches a bit of knowledge is very convenient.

I can't say that I have a formalized process. I usually start with an idea for a beat, 9 times out of 10, and then add parts from there. I've never considered what I do "song"-writing -- not out of some arrogant or pseudo-intellectual attitude, but simply because song implies creating a structure that changes over time, which is something I'm not good at, really, or try to be good at.

And welcome, Kirlian. =)

M
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#47713
King Koopa
Posts: 227
MDUW/MNM
virb.com/swiv
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
dajaphonics wrote:

Has anyone read "This is Your Brain on Music"? I love that book. I suggest you read it if you like music.

John


check out this thread for other things to read:

http://elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&id=46802&catid=13

For "finished" songs, I tend to draw "inspiration" from my basic state whether intentional or not. Music is really just a simple outlet for me. I need to get a track recorded within a couple of days of starting it, or I fizzle off and lose inspiration, I guess that track stops being relevant. That's also why my mixes and recordings can be quite on the shite side... when it plays back like a song, has some sense of resolution or whatever, I just want it out of the machines so I can start again. I definitely do not try from the outset to have a profound message or change the way people thing about the world or anything like that. Maybe I should though But I hope people can take something worthwhile from listening and interpreting anyway.

It's when I sit down and take a purely technical approach that I end up making patterns and kits that are nuked the next day. I think that without some recognition that a pattern is relevant, and maybe without any attachment, it's not worth turning into a track, regardless of the coolness of the sounds or the time invested in creating them.

Composition for me is something that isn't pre-planned or mapped out in any way. If I play back something in song mode, and I feel like it needs a change of tone, a lull, more energy, whatever, I just make a new pattern then and link it up. I just react to what's been covered so far in a track, where it could be taken next, not worrying about an overarching structure or plan.
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#47715
Chain Chomp
Posts: 458
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
wow kirlian, amazing post. I don't really have the time and energy right now to write a thought up response, but I'll be sure to check back in a few months when the workload here is cleared
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#47717
Rew
Chain Chomp
Posts: 513
0
Re:composition, process, ideas 15 Years, 3 Months ago
makes me realize i need to stop being so goddam lazy with my music!! get off my ass and just do it. I want to make music.... have sounds in my head.. so why the hell arent i doing it??

For me there are always a million things to do when I come home at night... a million reasons not to turn on the machines and tell myself i7ll make some stuff on the weekend.

The thing about writing / working everyday is huge for me! i really need to buckle down and do this. really start taking a proactive approach to making music.


Really insipiring post. Thanks. This is the type of thing i really look to this community for. Thanks everybody
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