Elektron-Users

Hmmmmm.. tough one to say..
i really like my harddisk recorder.. then again.. I only got it, cause its "the sister" of a sampler i got in another studio.. and i needed a mixer/recorder for a small project with a guitar player and some other "small" projects while i am away from the other studio..

if i was not so old, and set in my way.. i kinda think i rather buy a decent audio-interface and a bigger mixer if i had to start again.. so hmm.. harddisc recoders.. only when you need to, or you have a good reason..

Yes you are right again! That's my problem I don't know what is better?

If I use a harddiskrecorder, I have EQs in it and can save their settings and record my tracks ...

With an audiointerface and a big Mixer, I can do this, too and have some advantages from my PC DAW

But it's a price question, too!

Big 24 Channel (or more) mixers can be expensive and a good audiointerface, too!

I have a RME HDSPe AIO soundcard and yes it's a very good soundcard but an RME expansion with many inputs is very expensive!

So expansion and a good big mixer together cost much money, too!

What are the disadvantages between your harddiscrecorder or working with DAW ?


And by the way, really thank you all here for your help and ideas! It's a great forum, here!

Hmmm .. thats a difficult question:

dissadvantage 1: my harddisk recorder ..
It does NOT have usb OR scsi to export stuff.. it has a cd-drive..
that means, everytime i want to export something.. i have to use a non-rewritable cd..
this costs me a few cents per export.. so making a song with allot of swapping between the software and the hardware side of things.. "expensive" to make..

The good side of this: because its a hassle.. you only do it, when you actually have "good stuff" .. and you start to throw away badstuff..

A pc, aslong as the data is in your pc.. you can swap it.. export it.. manipulate it in EVERYTHING.. and does not cost you a cent... extra cheap.. and cheap is good..
the badside of this: If you dont learn to be a librarian, and store things in the good way (hehehe, and i think most cannot).. you end up with terabytes of unwanted stuff..
because its so easy, you put every fart on soundcloud thinking your a good producer, because "you have something"

A good thing about my recorder... No latency what so ever.. then again.. i did run into some trouble with the midi-clock.. and that still gives you weird drift now and then.. and here is a bad thing: unlike a computer, there is nothing to "hack / change driver/ change buffer"

Good thing about computer... there is always (even though sometimes its allot of effort and googling) a way to get things working and in total sync.. bad thing.. if your not a technology-geek.. it can be a freakishly daunting task to get everything working and synced up and all that..

Bad thing about my recorder.. It cannot be expanded more, then it is now.. it does have an rbus connection.. but thats one is going 2 be connected to my sampler (an mv8800) someday, when i return to the bigger studio.. so.. heh if i run out of inputs.. thats it..
good thing about computer.. hooray, just add more ports.. sometimes difficult with laptop.. but a desktop computer.. heheh is really expandable with all kinds of stuff..

and that good thing, ever expandabillity of a computer.. is also a bad thing.. atleast with hardware.. someday you run out of something, so you just cant "add more" anymore..
like i cant really control more then 32 midi-channels (with that mv8800).. i can always add an mpc.. but still i dont see myself with 16 monosynths per midi out (which would be around 64!!!! monosynths attached to an mpc..)

Good thing about my recorder... no upgrades.. so aslong as it works.. it will have the same interface. nothing new to learn.. so you learn your stuff inside out.. you kinda have decades to learn.. (took me 10 years to learn all the functions of my mc909.. and took me 7years to find out what EVERY in and output of my analog mixer actually did) .. but yeah i was really thorough in my quest hehehe..

and also a bad thing.. its as good/bad as it is now.. roland will never upgrade it or make new firmware for it... ever again... and once something breaks.. its dead.. i dont think roland will keep spare parts for the next 10 years..

So computer.. I see it as something you buy now.. and use for about 4 years.. and after 4 years.. there is probably new software for it and all that... you upgrade.. some stuff
more memory and all that.. and after another 4 years.. you have an ancient computer..
and none of it is really compatible with the "new stuff and the new computer" so you prob will buy.. a new computer.. and find new software.. and replace the interface because of driver trouble with the new windows.. and maybe your controller (because its old.. and kinda crappy after 8 years of use.. and unlike instruments.. nothing really diy reparable.. and to expensive to send it to repair shop..

and thats basicly the advantages and dissadvantages i can think of, just sitting down with my cup of tea.. might be more.. but hmm then i really have to sit down for it..

enjoy your reading..

oh, and if your getting curious what i do with all my stuff and knowledge and all that..
here is a little shameless selfpromotion http://www.muzu.tv/dreammer ..
the older videos should show glimpses of my shiny stuff in the other studio..

clipnotic wrote:


2. I Octatrack I have to test, too and I'm not sure if I should buy it for what I want to use it:

Normally I don't work with Loops but sometimes with some Vocals and I only would use it to create some vocal sample phrases there ...

You can get complicated with the automatic recording so it won't sound loopy, you can use it as an effects processor and the MIDI sequencer is good too, but unless you plan on really playing with the audio live I think there are much cheaper hardware devices to playback samples.
clipnotic wrote:

4. Midi in a mixer is really new for me!
[...]
Because I buy this equipment to work live without a pc, too

Live If you do songs rather than "mega-mixes" it can be really helpful to quickly and accurately change the levels across all tracks. As far as mixers with MIDI, in the states at least, the Yamaha 01v is good value used.

I use my laptop and it's sound card as a mixer live. A lot of soundcards offer a low latency mode that just passes the audio through and changes volume without going into the computer.

@The Dreammer:

Great! Thank you for your good explanations! I see I have to think about some things a little bit more!

And your music is good!

"Do the fidget" is a fat track! I will share it on facebook!

And yes you are a great dancer, too. Now I watching your moves in "No Logic"

Really good music!

I will listen more tomorrow! In germany now is midnight and I have to work tomorrow but I will come back here, it's a good forum!

Ah and if you like to listen to my music - you can do it here but that songs are not remastered yet, and only my mix versions and that music needs a little bit more freaky charakter

http://www.myownmusic.de/clipnotic

(scroll down and click on the track titels there)

@JONAH:

Thank you! That's good to know about Octatrack! I thought it could be good to freak with vocals. But first I will test it before I buy it.

And if you work with your laptop how do you connect your mixer / your hardware setup with it - which expansions with many inputs do you use?

I will look for that mixer, too.



OK, now I have to finish but tomorrow I'm a here again! I can learn many things from you guys here !

Really thank you!

FYI - I use a Yamaha AW1600 for recording. I do mixdowns on it, export the 24bit stereo file to PC via USB and do the last finishing touch in Soundforge.

Advantages of the Yamaha HDrecorders:
-midi ports
-usd hub for transferring files to pc
-interface pretty ok for a Yamaha unit

@EMNINE:

Thank you!

I looked for a Yamaha AW1600 and yes it's not expansive an looks useful!

But it only has 8 inputs ?

How can you create single wave files of every single instrument with that?

My songs mostly have 12 - 22 single tracks and for remastering I need every single instrument as a single track!

And sorry if my questions are a little bit noob - I'm really new in hardiscrecorders and never used one!


@JONAH:

I looked for a Yamaha 01v, too and found this one:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-01V96-Digital-Mischpult-Excellenter-Zustand-/180821586765?pt=Mixers&hash=item2a19ce734d#ht_1403wt_1187

Do yo mean a mixer like that?


@ALL:

what do you think about something like that:

http://www.thomann.de/de/focusrite_saffire_pro_40.htm

and how does something like that work? Have I connect this with my soundcard or has it one integrated ... ?

With that I wouldn't need a mixer and could use my DAW Mixer ... but then I would have problems with latency .. ?

The latency can be compensated.. though, i dont use computers like that..
so i cannot exactly explain you how or what..

So you created a few questions for yourself by the looks of it..

Question 1: how much do you hate computers..
if you dont.. less reason for a harddisk recorder.. more reason for pc
if you do.. harddisk recorder.. less reason for pc

Question 2:
Do you think you will buy a really big collection of synths/drumcomputers..
If so: if its more then 4.. you can run into input problems on a harddisk recorder
so you have to get a mixer... mixers come with the problem that they dont provide a big load of stereo channels.. so you have to combine mono inputs.. So more reason for pc
if not.. then harddisk recorder can suffice.. less reason for pc

Question 3:
How many tracks do you use??
i read something about 22 right? i got a chunky harddisc recorder.. it can MAX record 16 inputs at the same time.. thats less than your 22... sure mine has 24 tracks.. but.. this mean 2 separate takes, and some rerouting (its less fun as the manual says)
the other thing is.. you might get compression and eq maybe even reverb per track on a harddisk recorder.. but they dont come with multiple fx (mine is tricked out to have 4 stereo, or 8 mono.. which sounds great.. but to use the 8 mono.. you have to play with panning and all that.. brr) so.. even though for my use.. its handy... I think most techno/elektro people will just "run out of fx"
So A WHOLE LOT of channels.. and A WHOLE LOT OF FX.. is more reason for pc
if you think you can do it with the minimum.. and be a hardcore technofile, less reason for pc (though some people get to know their pc and software so good, they can be considered hardcore technofiles too..)

with the small amount of gear i work with now.. it al works.. but when i combine it with the other studio room.. i will run out of inputs.. and depending on how far i come with my dreams, will decide if and how i hook "everything" up.. if i really hook up everything.
i think i will end up using a computer.. just because of the size of the mixer i have to use..
(think of one of those behringers i talked about)..
then again.. knowing myself.. i prob say its to expansive, and i am not famous enough.. and just choose what gives me the propper tools to make the next project.. hook it up..
film it.. and put it on the internet.. heh.. there is a thing as "2 big for what you want"..
and well i am at the limit myself.. almost every adition will just be "overkill".

what a nice way to enjoy my coffee.. a page full of soundfilosofy..
btw clipnotic.. i listened to some of your music yesterday.. I liked it..
i dont hear reason to doubt your current setup.. it sounds groovy enough

clipnotic wrote:
@EMNINE:

Thank you!

I looked for a Yamaha AW1600 and yes it's not expansive an looks useful!

But it only has 8 inputs ?

How can you create single wave files of every single instrument with that?

My songs mostly have 12 - 22 single tracks and for remastering I need every single instrument as a single track!

And sorry if my questions are a little bit noob - I'm really new in hardiscrecorders and never used one!


True, only 8 inputs. If you go for the AW2400 and expand it you can go far beyond that.
Personally, limitations are what keeps me going. I'd rather tweak everything in advance and record a stereo out mixer and do several atttempts if necessary. Sofar music is just a hobby so I'm pretty happy with this workflow. No need to go into frustration zone with a part-time occupation ...

@The DREAMMER:

Thank you for listening my music! Yes I can work with my plugin setup but it's only a mouse game and want to integrate some hardware which I can't reproduce with my software setup. My music needs some more specials!

Question 1:

I don't hate computers but using them live looks a little bit strange for me. I will concentrate my work on the machines I work with and not on the computer.

Question 2:

No, my hardware setup will be:

- Monomachine
- Maschinedrum
- Virus B
- Korg Trinity Rack
- Sampler for Vocals

This is enough for my music and has all sounds what I need so I think this setup is fix.

Question 3:

Yes, that are many channels and I look to reduce them to get the 16 Channel goal.

FX like Reverb and Delay I will use with my hardware machines

What I need is EQ and Compressor for Sidechain ...

My current music which I made with my DAW use not many FX from the mixer. Mostly I work with different delay settings and some EQ-LowCuts and sometimes I use a compressor for sidechain or cut some peaks.

To bring my tracks up to a big sound I work with a mastering studio!



I visited a music equipment dealer today and he showed me this digital mixer:


http://www.thomann.de/de/presonus_studiolive_1602.htm


Perhaps it could be a solution? It has Firewire and Midi ...